How about helping yourself. Do the work, stand and deliver. We will assist those on the several States. www.orsja.org You must do it yourself, no one can do it for thou, you cannot do it alone.
Yeah, watch out for Assemblies and jural assemblies that are bogus. If they settle counties pass them by, if Anna is involved pass her by. the same with Bill Elwood. Stay out of Dearborn. There are a bunch of good people there. Look you will find them.
The government, no matter the stripe, is always made up of self-serving retards who know nothing else in life but to destroy and murder. These are the "things" that are not human and not worthy of living.
I don't agree with the following statements, which suggest an empty hell:
"The gods of the old testament hate the fact that every single man, women, and child ever created will become immortal and be with God forever. As a result, they seek to kill them now.
Rest assured, at the end, all creation, even these despicable gods, are reconciled to the Almighty God through Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection!"
Apart from that, I think that you're right about what the governments of this world are doing under these satanic influences.
I'm a public servant, not in the US, and I see a disconnect between what people say that they believe, and what they're prepared to go along with while they're in the workplace.
I'm not able to apply for promotions with a clear conscience any more, and the day will probably come when I'm not able to work anywhere anymore.
Rest assured, they will answer for what they have done and face severe judgement. However, not even these gods can do 'anything' apart from the Almighty's will. When evil is abolished, Christ reconciles ALL through the blood of the cross. God bless you in your struggles with today's work environment, I'm right there with you.
And He is the head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile ALL to Him (making peace through the blood of HIS cross), through Him, whether those on the EARTH or THOSE in the HEAVENS.
Hell will be a place devoid of any of the light of Christ, and is reserved for those who have come to know Christ, and then turned their back on Him. The rest.... this talk given yesterday in the General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a good synopsis of where people end up, given the infinite atonement of Jesus Christ and ongoing ministering in the hereafter. Go to 1:32:27 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/broadcasts/saturday-morning-session?lang=eng
And yes, people WILL answer for what they have done... but some degree of glory is available for them as a gift.
"Not one person that has ever lived will be separated from God for eternity but God will be All in every single creature that He created through the death for sin, the entombment, and resurrection of Christ Jesus. Human free will DOES NOT EXIST. Eternal hell DOES NOT EXIST. Immortality of the soul DOES NOT EXIST. The trinity DOES NOT EXIST. God does all and saves all." (Each point is discussed on the website.)
Part of this sounds like some of the teachings with which I was raised, though not the universalism part. The author could make these details a little plainer here on Substack, not requiring readers to search the Internet for his website, but then this blog looks like it could still be under construction.
So yes, universalism. It's a variant teaching (see, for example Zondervan's "Four Views on Hell", which I have read -- interesting book). Not a teaching to which I adhere, but some do.
Universalism is a lie. If everyone was to be reconciled to God and everyone is going to be with God in heaven for eternity, then what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross? It would have been in vain, if no one has to believe in Him. Also this article says that God created evil, He did not create evil, evil came into the world with what Adam and Eve did, but God did not create that. That is false.
form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVILl: I the Lord do all these things. - Isaiah 45:7
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works ALL things according to the counsel of HIS will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. - Ephesians 1:11-12
Isaiah 45:7 the word evil in the King James Version means "calamity" or "disaster," not evil as you are thinking, this is wrong thinking and it goes against God's character. The context of this passage is that God blesses those who are faithful and punishes those who disobey. It's in this that God creates "well-being" and "calamity."
The Hebrew word 'Ra' is used in this verse. It is the same word used to describe humanity before the flood. Where these people 'calamity or disaster' or where they evil? King James has many translation errors, using a concordant can help. https://www.concordant.org/
If Jesus didn't die on the cross then nobody would be saved. Job stated that we receive both good and evil from God. How about Ecclesiastes 1:13, "It is an experience of Evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it." Romans 5: 18-19 explains what Christ did on the cross and for whom. Grace and peace.
You can call someone's beliefs a lie if you wish, but if you want to try to connect with that person and discuss differences, you might want to start out differently. "My belief is right and yours is wrong" is not what I would call either a strong argument or a conversation starter. But yes, there are big problems with universalism.
You can learn from universalism and those that believe in it, though, without agreeing with it. Do you you care about people that do believe in it?
These are not my words, they are the words of Jesus Himself. "NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." Maybe the people that don't like what I'm saying need to go and research it for themselves. I'm not going to coddle people with a lie, when I know what they're thinking and putting out on any forum for anyone to see and learn from, is false.
Do I care about the people who believe in Universalism? Yes, that's why you can't lie to people and let them continue believing lies. Was that the question I didn't answer? And what is it that I can learn from Universalism, if it is patently untrue? I don't get it. Care to elaborate?
The purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was *so* everyone would be saved (please note that neither Scott nor I believe everyone will be with God in heaven for eternity though, but rather that most people will end up on the New Earth instead). The Bible teaches this, as well as the fact that God creates good and evil. If you want to learn more about these topics, please check out this free eBook on the topic at: https://www.concordantgospel.com/ebook
I agree that "All the ISMS are of Adversary". There might conceivably be exceptions, but that's not the point. Universalism certainly is not an exception.
Jesus came to save sinners, which includes all of us. That is universal -- that we are sinners. For those who feel called to witness, there is no one to witness to other than sinners. That means speaking with them, meeting them where they are, and listening and responding thoughtfully and biblically, speaking the truth in love. Jesus did this, although his way with those defying him and plotting to kill him could be a bit different -- Matthew 23 comes to mind. But he did offer them their opportunity.
I have encountered universalists personally. One is pastor of a "progressive" mainline church with peculiar ideas about the gospel. I was not able to get through to him, but I did leave him with some scriptures to perhaps remember at a later time. And I still pray for that church, which is headed down such a bad path now. I do not want him or it to end up where they appear to be headed.
it is very welcome to see that awareness of the non-corporeal, sub-deity interventions in our current human history is becoming more understood
so many focus on the actions and deeds of the "oligarchs, politicians, bankers" and so on, yet completely ignore the supra-natural puppet string pullers
it is ironic that those that serve the dark are also at the fore front of "technology, industry, exploration/exploitation" and thus are so far removed from their conceived "new earth" tree hugging bs which they push as "luciferianism", maurice strong aka the wizard of bacca grande springs to mind, the author of agenda 2030 and the co-founder of wef, mollech afficionado, child sacrificing p.o.s
and what is it currently, 935 children still missing from Lahaina..?
the entities "they" revere and worship would it seem claim dominion over the "natural world" yet are at once at the fore front of poisoning and altering it, a term known as "terra-forming", a concept all should get their heads around fast, herein lies a deception as weighty as any
i am fortunate enough to live in one of the most historic and unspoilt rural idylls in England and have recently read Claude Lecouteux` "demons and spirits of the land" (ancestral lore and practices),
This book examines the agreements/boundaries/respects between humans and "earth spirits" that once existed (and to a lesser degree still do) in human culture, the observations and platitudes that existed in order for life to carry on without strife.
in "old" England and all over north europe such observations/platitudes were common and can still be found within place names etc, iceland still require surveys to be done before new houses can be built in "revered places"...
I was recently asked to excavate and restore a 1000 yr old drinking water well at a neighbouring property, having read Lecouteux i felt suitably informed as to the reverence the task should be given, to dig down and discover the original set stones that formed the base of this millenia old well is not something i will forget easily.. to see and feel what was laid a 1000 yrs before with reverence to the spirit of the spring that dwells within....... i have no words for this
I have a friend who was an Egyptian state archaelogist, he mentioned to me that his previous colleagues still working in the Nile delta were formulating a new understanding of the Giza structures in reference to maintaing the balance between the seen and unseen world, the word "prison" was mentioned, "what lies below the giza plateau" is an interesting search term to follow
Many of us know the relevance of saturn, the cube (and those who revere it)
I recently revisted the definition of Apokalypse and its relevance for revealing the truth for us "gentiles", heres a good link:
it is a real pickle we are in right now, those proclaiming a luciferian movement toward earth reverance are the self same behind its destruction and we the dis-enfranchised are the minnions of earths destruction by dint of the baubles they sell us.....
yet the vision they sell as described by psycopaths like "mike" harraris son little yuval (its worth researching his daddy... most illuminating) , the vision is of a techno/trans human hybrid with no ability to link with the natural world once fully linked to whatever "g" they come up with
i find the concepts discussed within the disclosures known as "looking glass project" correlate positively with othet things i have studied/read
i look forward to reading more here at this new substack
i like the "stargate" image.... used in the text, i once found an explanation/decryption of shakepeares sonnets while researching freemasonry, the claim was that the code referred to the return of the capstone, a countdown if you will
but hey just slowly educating the masses that they have played along with a "make believe virus" for 3 years is challenge enough, let alone trying to explain whatever may yet float down through the canopy...
God did not 'create evil,' although, in His permissive will, He allows it and all of our freewill choices, even those that go directly against His Almighty Will. God ordains, God prefers and God permits. Satan and the fallen angels made a choice; "I will not serve." Don't expect to see them in Heaven....they have already chosen Hell as their final resting place; eternal separation from God. Biblical teaching is very clear on this. Also, we're all not necessarily going to magically end up in Heaven...No repentance, no forgiveness. The choice is ours.
It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it (Ecclesiastes 1:13). "I create evil" says God in Isaiah 45:7. This is the Hebrew word 'Ra' which is the same word to describe humanity killed because of the flood. God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why? We have to experience evil to truly understand the good that God has waiting for us. Your salvation is not based on 'your choice,' but on the cross of Christ Jesus. For God is the Savior of all mankind (1Timothy4:10) and reconciles all creation to God through the blood of the cross (Colossians 1:15-20). Grace and peace to you.
Believers of Universalism would have to rip out great swaths of the Scripture to validate their belief. You'd have to take out what the meaning and purpose of the Book of Life is, Jesus calling Believers "you are the Light of the world," Believers being set apart, and so many more scriptures, too numerous to name on this forum. Jesus spoke of hell more times than He did of heaven, if it were not real, if it weren't the place of torment "wailing and gnashing of teeth," then why did He speak of those things? You're calling Jesus a liar if you believe that ALL people will be saved at some point in time. Get the correct context of scripture and stop following the progressive forms of the Bible, ones that want EVERYONE to be saved regardless if they repent and turn to Jesus or not, those are not the Truth Jesus and the disciples spoke of. I won't comment any further, I've commented already a few times on here. People will believe what their itching ears want to hear and nothing more. "Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the path that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. But narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life, and there are few that find it."
God is the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers (1 Timothy 4:10). Not exclusively. Its not universalism, its the power of the cross. Review 1 Corinthians 15:21-28, Colossians 1:15-20, Romans 5:18-19 and many other verses. You must rightly divide the word in order to know these truths. For instance, when Jesus walked the earth He was only speaking of the 1000 year kingdom, not eternity. WE get the full scope of the accomplishment of the cross through the glorified Christ in Paul's letters.
Scott, you have taken those scriptures completely out of context, and if you knew what those verses meant in the original Greek, you'd be embarrassed at what you wrote there. I won't even begin to try and explain it, go get a real bible and a concordance, and maybe try to decipher some Greek, THEN you'll understand how horribly wrong you have it. Good day.
You can take 1 Timothy 4:10 in any context you want, whether Paul is speaking to Jew or gentile, or to believers or unbelievers, it can't mean anything else but the fact that the cross is strong enough to eventually save everyone. I agree with you that we must take all scripture in context. Even more importantly, you must understand what Jesus actually said. For instance, Jesus spoke of aionion life, not eternal life. What do I have wrong about the Greek?
Nanners has eyes that see and ears that hear regarding the topic of hell.
Denying the reality of the eternal hell and arguing it’s merely a temporary, earthly place means the Word of God is in error, since that’s exactly what Jesus repeatedly warns us to avoid by our being obedient to God, His Father:
“Jesus spoke of hell more times than He did of heaven, if it were not real, if it weren't the place of torment ‘wailing and gnashing of teeth,’ then why did He speak of those things? You're calling Jesus a liar if you believe that ALL people will be saved at some point in time.”
Actually Jesus never mentioned the word hell, ever, in all of recorded scripture. He said 'Gehenna' which is a physical place, not a place of eternal torment. When Jesus spoke of 'wailing and gnashing of teeth,' He was speaking of Israelites' that would be excluded from the 1000 year kingdom. This is not eternity. Through the apostle Paul, Jesus says that the same all that die in Adam will be made alive in Christ (1Cor15:21-22, Rom5:18-19). Many are dead and miss out on Great treasures, but Christ abolishes death so that God will eventually be All in all. The 'all' in context is all humanity. Throw off your tradition and please review 1 Corinthians 15:21-28. Think of this, Jesus Christ came to this earth to die for sin. The sin that you say keeps humanity in hell forever. If Jesus came to take away the sin of the world and yet, you say sin will separate man from God forever, then who is calling Jesus a liar?
Jesus died for our sin and yet we are still guilty of sin, the very thing He died for? Jesus, while on earth, said that He has only come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 15:24-25). Repent and obey or go to hell is never the question. The Israelites entering the kingdom must repent and obey or they will miss the kingdom, nobody is thrown into hell, but instead, outer darkness or Gehenna. Neither of these are places of eternal conscious torment. This, Bridget, is not the end of the story. Paul got a revelation from the glorified Christ Jesus that does explain the endgame. This truth is apart from law and is based soley on Christ's faith and Christ's obedience, not ours (Romans 3:21-23). In fact, where sin increases, grace superexceeds (Romans 5:20). We are saved by grace. Grace is God's favor given to those that deserve the opposite and yet, you say you deserve it by obedience. This grace is not of us, least you can boast. We are God's achievement, not our own (all contained in Ephesians 2:8-10). This grace eventually covers those that miss the 1000 year kingdom and everyone else, as all that die in Adam will be made alive in Christ to complete the all in all (1 Corinthians 15:21-28). The cross is much more powerful that we could ever imagine. Grace drives our behavior, not the fear of hell. Grace and peace.
What are you talking about, you're talking out both sides of your mouth. For one, you're saying I'm ONLY focusing on hell, how do you know what I believe in its totality? You don't, except that a hell that is only temporary is blasphemous, as many of you universalists believe. Yet you say "denying the reality of the eternal hell and arguing it's merely temporary," I never said it was temporary, it's the Universalists that say that. Get it straight. I'm merely pointing out what many of the universalists don't want to see and hear with their eyes and ears, they want EVERYONE to be saved, when that's not what the Bible teaches.
No, Nanners, I wasn’t saying you claimed hell was temporary at all. That was the topic being discussed so that’s why I said you had a correct interpretation of scripture on it. I have no knowledge of your views on other topics but, again, that’s not the point here.
You may want to reread what I wrote; I was referring to Scott Hico and those who think like him who often argue there’s no hell but some sort of temporary earthly place where it all gets sorted out. That stands in clear contradiction of what Jesus warned us on the reality and eternity of hell.
I’m not a Universalist at all. A closer rereading will make that plain to you.
Quite so - "Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple." [1 Corinthians 3:16-27]
2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power...
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Lovely quotes, thank you Bridget - clearly you are scholar of repute, and an angel of mercy. Long may you prosper as out spiritual battle proceeds:
"Finally, go on acquiring power in the Lord and in the mightiness of his strength. Put on the complete suit of armour from God so that you may be able to stand firm against the crafty acts of the Devil; because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. For this reason take up the complete suit of armour from God, so that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have accomplished everything, to stand firm."
Hardly an angel. Just a flawed human being very much aware of the futility of life without God and the pointlessness of rejecting Him when He made me and loves me enough to sacrifice His perfect Son for my sins.
Those who follow God the Creator are supposed to be strangers and aliens to the world. We are to be the good stewards and give back to the creator what he's given to us.
Yes, however it's important to always read the Bible in context and, in this case, to make the distinction between natural evil (ie; the Flood) and moral evil (whether by human choice or under the influence of evil 'gods' (better known as demons), since the word 'Ra' may be referring to either or both......sorry have to go now, will elaborate later....
“Rest assured, at the end, all creation, even these despicable gods, are reconciled to the Almighty God through Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection!”
If that’s so, why did Jesus repeated warn those who’re disobedient to God about Hell? He never spoke of “all (being) reconciled to”Him but the contrary.
And why did He say: “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be?”
Jesus never mentioned the word hell in His entire life. 'Hell' is an English word and the New Testament was written in Greek. Jesus spoke the word 'Gehenna' which refers to the Valley of Hinnom which is an actual, physical place that you can walk through in Israel today. Back in Christ's time, it had nothing to do with eternal conscious torment. While on earth, Jesus spoke of being out of the kingdom meaning people would miss the 1000 year kingdom, not eternity. Read Colossians 1: 15-20, using the same entities of Ephesians 6:12, and see what those verses say. Grace and peace.
Psalm 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mark 9:43-48 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
When a nation and it's people worship idols (fame, fortune, possessions, power, pride) anything other than the true living God, there is a price to be paid. Those responsible for the furthering the Godless, dystopian societies will find great sorrow. Be in the Word.
30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, and again, “The Lord will judge his people. 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:30-31
Agape Love … highest form of love has been lost and forgotten…. God help us 🙏
How about helping yourself. Do the work, stand and deliver. We will assist those on the several States. www.orsja.org You must do it yourself, no one can do it for thou, you cannot do it alone.
Any guidance for those of us in satanic Michigan?
Yeah, watch out for Assemblies and jural assemblies that are bogus. If they settle counties pass them by, if Anna is involved pass her by. the same with Bill Elwood. Stay out of Dearborn. There are a bunch of good people there. Look you will find them.
The government, no matter the stripe, is always made up of self-serving retards who know nothing else in life but to destroy and murder. These are the "things" that are not human and not worthy of living.
Governments as they currently stand report to evil sources for nefarious purposes.
I don't agree with the following statements, which suggest an empty hell:
"The gods of the old testament hate the fact that every single man, women, and child ever created will become immortal and be with God forever. As a result, they seek to kill them now.
Rest assured, at the end, all creation, even these despicable gods, are reconciled to the Almighty God through Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection!"
Apart from that, I think that you're right about what the governments of this world are doing under these satanic influences.
I'm a public servant, not in the US, and I see a disconnect between what people say that they believe, and what they're prepared to go along with while they're in the workplace.
I'm not able to apply for promotions with a clear conscience any more, and the day will probably come when I'm not able to work anywhere anymore.
Rest assured, they will answer for what they have done and face severe judgement. However, not even these gods can do 'anything' apart from the Almighty's will. When evil is abolished, Christ reconciles ALL through the blood of the cross. God bless you in your struggles with today's work environment, I'm right there with you.
And He is the head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile ALL to Him (making peace through the blood of HIS cross), through Him, whether those on the EARTH or THOSE in the HEAVENS.
- Colossians 1:15-20
Grace and peace
Hell will be a place devoid of any of the light of Christ, and is reserved for those who have come to know Christ, and then turned their back on Him. The rest.... this talk given yesterday in the General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a good synopsis of where people end up, given the infinite atonement of Jesus Christ and ongoing ministering in the hereafter. Go to 1:32:27 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/broadcasts/saturday-morning-session?lang=eng
And yes, people WILL answer for what they have done... but some degree of glory is available for them as a gift.
What I'm reading sound like universalism. Also, I am seeing some unusual translations, although they might be OK.
I think this explains things. From savedignoble.com:
"Not one person that has ever lived will be separated from God for eternity but God will be All in every single creature that He created through the death for sin, the entombment, and resurrection of Christ Jesus. Human free will DOES NOT EXIST. Eternal hell DOES NOT EXIST. Immortality of the soul DOES NOT EXIST. The trinity DOES NOT EXIST. God does all and saves all." (Each point is discussed on the website.)
Part of this sounds like some of the teachings with which I was raised, though not the universalism part. The author could make these details a little plainer here on Substack, not requiring readers to search the Internet for his website, but then this blog looks like it could still be under construction.
So yes, universalism. It's a variant teaching (see, for example Zondervan's "Four Views on Hell", which I have read -- interesting book). Not a teaching to which I adhere, but some do.
Universalism is a lie. If everyone was to be reconciled to God and everyone is going to be with God in heaven for eternity, then what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross? It would have been in vain, if no one has to believe in Him. Also this article says that God created evil, He did not create evil, evil came into the world with what Adam and Eve did, but God did not create that. That is false.
form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVILl: I the Lord do all these things. - Isaiah 45:7
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works ALL things according to the counsel of HIS will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. - Ephesians 1:11-12
Grace and peace
Isaiah 45:7 the word evil in the King James Version means "calamity" or "disaster," not evil as you are thinking, this is wrong thinking and it goes against God's character. The context of this passage is that God blesses those who are faithful and punishes those who disobey. It's in this that God creates "well-being" and "calamity."
The Hebrew word 'Ra' is used in this verse. It is the same word used to describe humanity before the flood. Where these people 'calamity or disaster' or where they evil? King James has many translation errors, using a concordant can help. https://www.concordant.org/
If Jesus didn't die on the cross then nobody would be saved. Job stated that we receive both good and evil from God. How about Ecclesiastes 1:13, "It is an experience of Evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it." Romans 5: 18-19 explains what Christ did on the cross and for whom. Grace and peace.
You can call someone's beliefs a lie if you wish, but if you want to try to connect with that person and discuss differences, you might want to start out differently. "My belief is right and yours is wrong" is not what I would call either a strong argument or a conversation starter. But yes, there are big problems with universalism.
You can learn from universalism and those that believe in it, though, without agreeing with it. Do you you care about people that do believe in it?
These are not my words, they are the words of Jesus Himself. "NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." Maybe the people that don't like what I'm saying need to go and research it for themselves. I'm not going to coddle people with a lie, when I know what they're thinking and putting out on any forum for anyone to see and learn from, is false.
Yes, those are Jesus' words. With Him, I have no disagreement.
You didn't answer my question.
Do I care about the people who believe in Universalism? Yes, that's why you can't lie to people and let them continue believing lies. Was that the question I didn't answer? And what is it that I can learn from Universalism, if it is patently untrue? I don't get it. Care to elaborate?
The purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was *so* everyone would be saved (please note that neither Scott nor I believe everyone will be with God in heaven for eternity though, but rather that most people will end up on the New Earth instead). The Bible teaches this, as well as the fact that God creates good and evil. If you want to learn more about these topics, please check out this free eBook on the topic at: https://www.concordantgospel.com/ebook
All the ISMS are of Adversary.
And when it comes to Universalism, I second this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iBJXbNLeh0
And this, when it comes to dishonest Bible translations the main stream Christianity bases its doctrines on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkazQpO9eVE
Have a blessed day.
Grace and peace
I agree that "All the ISMS are of Adversary". There might conceivably be exceptions, but that's not the point. Universalism certainly is not an exception.
Jesus came to save sinners, which includes all of us. That is universal -- that we are sinners. For those who feel called to witness, there is no one to witness to other than sinners. That means speaking with them, meeting them where they are, and listening and responding thoughtfully and biblically, speaking the truth in love. Jesus did this, although his way with those defying him and plotting to kill him could be a bit different -- Matthew 23 comes to mind. But he did offer them their opportunity.
I have encountered universalists personally. One is pastor of a "progressive" mainline church with peculiar ideas about the gospel. I was not able to get through to him, but I did leave him with some scriptures to perhaps remember at a later time. And I still pray for that church, which is headed down such a bad path now. I do not want him or it to end up where they appear to be headed.
Governments are made up of people who need to be helped by others. Shamed by their inadequacies, they kill those who sustain them.
The de facto governance is made up by persons. We have not had government since 1860 or 61, depends on perspective.
I have long suspected this era that we are in to be an intense spiritual war. Some of the ideas shared here give me more reasons to believe this is happening right before our eyes. https://www.heartlight.org/cgi-shl/todaysverse.cgi?day=20231002
it is very welcome to see that awareness of the non-corporeal, sub-deity interventions in our current human history is becoming more understood
so many focus on the actions and deeds of the "oligarchs, politicians, bankers" and so on, yet completely ignore the supra-natural puppet string pullers
it is ironic that those that serve the dark are also at the fore front of "technology, industry, exploration/exploitation" and thus are so far removed from their conceived "new earth" tree hugging bs which they push as "luciferianism", maurice strong aka the wizard of bacca grande springs to mind, the author of agenda 2030 and the co-founder of wef, mollech afficionado, child sacrificing p.o.s
and what is it currently, 935 children still missing from Lahaina..?
the entities "they" revere and worship would it seem claim dominion over the "natural world" yet are at once at the fore front of poisoning and altering it, a term known as "terra-forming", a concept all should get their heads around fast, herein lies a deception as weighty as any
i am fortunate enough to live in one of the most historic and unspoilt rural idylls in England and have recently read Claude Lecouteux` "demons and spirits of the land" (ancestral lore and practices),
This book examines the agreements/boundaries/respects between humans and "earth spirits" that once existed (and to a lesser degree still do) in human culture, the observations and platitudes that existed in order for life to carry on without strife.
in "old" England and all over north europe such observations/platitudes were common and can still be found within place names etc, iceland still require surveys to be done before new houses can be built in "revered places"...
I was recently asked to excavate and restore a 1000 yr old drinking water well at a neighbouring property, having read Lecouteux i felt suitably informed as to the reverence the task should be given, to dig down and discover the original set stones that formed the base of this millenia old well is not something i will forget easily.. to see and feel what was laid a 1000 yrs before with reverence to the spirit of the spring that dwells within....... i have no words for this
I have a friend who was an Egyptian state archaelogist, he mentioned to me that his previous colleagues still working in the Nile delta were formulating a new understanding of the Giza structures in reference to maintaing the balance between the seen and unseen world, the word "prison" was mentioned, "what lies below the giza plateau" is an interesting search term to follow
Many of us know the relevance of saturn, the cube (and those who revere it)
I recently revisted the definition of Apokalypse and its relevance for revealing the truth for us "gentiles", heres a good link:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g602/kjv/tr/0-1/
it is a real pickle we are in right now, those proclaiming a luciferian movement toward earth reverance are the self same behind its destruction and we the dis-enfranchised are the minnions of earths destruction by dint of the baubles they sell us.....
yet the vision they sell as described by psycopaths like "mike" harraris son little yuval (its worth researching his daddy... most illuminating) , the vision is of a techno/trans human hybrid with no ability to link with the natural world once fully linked to whatever "g" they come up with
i find the concepts discussed within the disclosures known as "looking glass project" correlate positively with othet things i have studied/read
i look forward to reading more here at this new substack
i like the "stargate" image.... used in the text, i once found an explanation/decryption of shakepeares sonnets while researching freemasonry, the claim was that the code referred to the return of the capstone, a countdown if you will
but hey just slowly educating the masses that they have played along with a "make believe virus" for 3 years is challenge enough, let alone trying to explain whatever may yet float down through the canopy...
God did not 'create evil,' although, in His permissive will, He allows it and all of our freewill choices, even those that go directly against His Almighty Will. God ordains, God prefers and God permits. Satan and the fallen angels made a choice; "I will not serve." Don't expect to see them in Heaven....they have already chosen Hell as their final resting place; eternal separation from God. Biblical teaching is very clear on this. Also, we're all not necessarily going to magically end up in Heaven...No repentance, no forgiveness. The choice is ours.
It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it (Ecclesiastes 1:13). "I create evil" says God in Isaiah 45:7. This is the Hebrew word 'Ra' which is the same word to describe humanity killed because of the flood. God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why? We have to experience evil to truly understand the good that God has waiting for us. Your salvation is not based on 'your choice,' but on the cross of Christ Jesus. For God is the Savior of all mankind (1Timothy4:10) and reconciles all creation to God through the blood of the cross (Colossians 1:15-20). Grace and peace to you.
Wonderful explanation.
You speak the truth Bridget but sadly few understand.
Blessings
AP
Believers of Universalism would have to rip out great swaths of the Scripture to validate their belief. You'd have to take out what the meaning and purpose of the Book of Life is, Jesus calling Believers "you are the Light of the world," Believers being set apart, and so many more scriptures, too numerous to name on this forum. Jesus spoke of hell more times than He did of heaven, if it were not real, if it weren't the place of torment "wailing and gnashing of teeth," then why did He speak of those things? You're calling Jesus a liar if you believe that ALL people will be saved at some point in time. Get the correct context of scripture and stop following the progressive forms of the Bible, ones that want EVERYONE to be saved regardless if they repent and turn to Jesus or not, those are not the Truth Jesus and the disciples spoke of. I won't comment any further, I've commented already a few times on here. People will believe what their itching ears want to hear and nothing more. "Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the path that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. But narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life, and there are few that find it."
God is the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers (1 Timothy 4:10). Not exclusively. Its not universalism, its the power of the cross. Review 1 Corinthians 15:21-28, Colossians 1:15-20, Romans 5:18-19 and many other verses. You must rightly divide the word in order to know these truths. For instance, when Jesus walked the earth He was only speaking of the 1000 year kingdom, not eternity. WE get the full scope of the accomplishment of the cross through the glorified Christ in Paul's letters.
Scott, you have taken those scriptures completely out of context, and if you knew what those verses meant in the original Greek, you'd be embarrassed at what you wrote there. I won't even begin to try and explain it, go get a real bible and a concordance, and maybe try to decipher some Greek, THEN you'll understand how horribly wrong you have it. Good day.
You can take 1 Timothy 4:10 in any context you want, whether Paul is speaking to Jew or gentile, or to believers or unbelievers, it can't mean anything else but the fact that the cross is strong enough to eventually save everyone. I agree with you that we must take all scripture in context. Even more importantly, you must understand what Jesus actually said. For instance, Jesus spoke of aionion life, not eternal life. What do I have wrong about the Greek?
Nanners has eyes that see and ears that hear regarding the topic of hell.
Denying the reality of the eternal hell and arguing it’s merely a temporary, earthly place means the Word of God is in error, since that’s exactly what Jesus repeatedly warns us to avoid by our being obedient to God, His Father:
“Jesus spoke of hell more times than He did of heaven, if it were not real, if it weren't the place of torment ‘wailing and gnashing of teeth,’ then why did He speak of those things? You're calling Jesus a liar if you believe that ALL people will be saved at some point in time.”
Actually Jesus never mentioned the word hell, ever, in all of recorded scripture. He said 'Gehenna' which is a physical place, not a place of eternal torment. When Jesus spoke of 'wailing and gnashing of teeth,' He was speaking of Israelites' that would be excluded from the 1000 year kingdom. This is not eternity. Through the apostle Paul, Jesus says that the same all that die in Adam will be made alive in Christ (1Cor15:21-22, Rom5:18-19). Many are dead and miss out on Great treasures, but Christ abolishes death so that God will eventually be All in all. The 'all' in context is all humanity. Throw off your tradition and please review 1 Corinthians 15:21-28. Think of this, Jesus Christ came to this earth to die for sin. The sin that you say keeps humanity in hell forever. If Jesus came to take away the sin of the world and yet, you say sin will separate man from God forever, then who is calling Jesus a liar?
Jesus Christ did come to this earth to die for our sin, yes.
But all humans who’re accountable, as in those who’re mentally competent, are guilty of sin. Only those who obey the Gospel will escape hell.
Is that hard for us to comprehend at times? Perhaps, but that’s God’s plan for us.
In Mark 16:16, Jesus himself explains it:
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.“
Jesus died for our sin and yet we are still guilty of sin, the very thing He died for? Jesus, while on earth, said that He has only come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 15:24-25). Repent and obey or go to hell is never the question. The Israelites entering the kingdom must repent and obey or they will miss the kingdom, nobody is thrown into hell, but instead, outer darkness or Gehenna. Neither of these are places of eternal conscious torment. This, Bridget, is not the end of the story. Paul got a revelation from the glorified Christ Jesus that does explain the endgame. This truth is apart from law and is based soley on Christ's faith and Christ's obedience, not ours (Romans 3:21-23). In fact, where sin increases, grace superexceeds (Romans 5:20). We are saved by grace. Grace is God's favor given to those that deserve the opposite and yet, you say you deserve it by obedience. This grace is not of us, least you can boast. We are God's achievement, not our own (all contained in Ephesians 2:8-10). This grace eventually covers those that miss the 1000 year kingdom and everyone else, as all that die in Adam will be made alive in Christ to complete the all in all (1 Corinthians 15:21-28). The cross is much more powerful that we could ever imagine. Grace drives our behavior, not the fear of hell. Grace and peace.
What are you talking about, you're talking out both sides of your mouth. For one, you're saying I'm ONLY focusing on hell, how do you know what I believe in its totality? You don't, except that a hell that is only temporary is blasphemous, as many of you universalists believe. Yet you say "denying the reality of the eternal hell and arguing it's merely temporary," I never said it was temporary, it's the Universalists that say that. Get it straight. I'm merely pointing out what many of the universalists don't want to see and hear with their eyes and ears, they want EVERYONE to be saved, when that's not what the Bible teaches.
No, Nanners, I wasn’t saying you claimed hell was temporary at all. That was the topic being discussed so that’s why I said you had a correct interpretation of scripture on it. I have no knowledge of your views on other topics but, again, that’s not the point here.
You may want to reread what I wrote; I was referring to Scott Hico and those who think like him who often argue there’s no hell but some sort of temporary earthly place where it all gets sorted out. That stands in clear contradiction of what Jesus warned us on the reality and eternity of hell.
I’m not a Universalist at all. A closer rereading will make that plain to you.
Quite so - "Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple." [1 Corinthians 3:16-27]
Hell is as real as Heaven is.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power...
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Lovely quotes, thank you Bridget - clearly you are scholar of repute, and an angel of mercy. Long may you prosper as out spiritual battle proceeds:
"Finally, go on acquiring power in the Lord and in the mightiness of his strength. Put on the complete suit of armour from God so that you may be able to stand firm against the crafty acts of the Devil; because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. For this reason take up the complete suit of armour from God, so that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have accomplished everything, to stand firm."
[Ephesians 6:10-13]
Hardly an angel. Just a flawed human being very much aware of the futility of life without God and the pointlessness of rejecting Him when He made me and loves me enough to sacrifice His perfect Son for my sins.
Those who follow God the Creator are supposed to be strangers and aliens to the world. We are to be the good stewards and give back to the creator what he's given to us.
Yes, however it's important to always read the Bible in context and, in this case, to make the distinction between natural evil (ie; the Flood) and moral evil (whether by human choice or under the influence of evil 'gods' (better known as demons), since the word 'Ra' may be referring to either or both......sorry have to go now, will elaborate later....
The evil cabal allows demonic beings to work through them. It's our duty as children of God to allow Jesus Christ to work through us.
“Rest assured, at the end, all creation, even these despicable gods, are reconciled to the Almighty God through Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection!”
If that’s so, why did Jesus repeated warn those who’re disobedient to God about Hell? He never spoke of “all (being) reconciled to”Him but the contrary.
And why did He say: “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be?”
Rev. 22:12
Jesus never mentioned the word hell in His entire life. 'Hell' is an English word and the New Testament was written in Greek. Jesus spoke the word 'Gehenna' which refers to the Valley of Hinnom which is an actual, physical place that you can walk through in Israel today. Back in Christ's time, it had nothing to do with eternal conscious torment. While on earth, Jesus spoke of being out of the kingdom meaning people would miss the 1000 year kingdom, not eternity. Read Colossians 1: 15-20, using the same entities of Ephesians 6:12, and see what those verses say. Grace and peace.
Psalm 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mark 9:43-48 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
When a nation and it's people worship idols (fame, fortune, possessions, power, pride) anything other than the true living God, there is a price to be paid. Those responsible for the furthering the Godless, dystopian societies will find great sorrow. Be in the Word.
30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, and again, “The Lord will judge his people. 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:30-31