I'm familiar with "the sons of God" from Gen. 6:2 (בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ / οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ), and 1 Enoch 6 ff., and I think I have read some of your material too, but I don't use that as a basis for conclusions about where the disciplines regarding self-attainment originated. I have, however, studied some of those disciplines, and been a practitioner to a small degree, and yes, there is a problem with that approach! I've also considered myself a humanist at times (certainly not now). So you're writing about things that were near and dear to me at one time.
This is what I find interesting: "Now Christianity, the religion that claims the name of the one true God and His Son, Christ Jesus. Christians profess that Jesus dying on the cross saved them but do they actually mean it?"
I like to ask questions like these, and I am reluctant to use the label "Christian" because it is associated with so many unbiblical things, depending on where one looks. And the "eternity in hell" thing drives me nuts because it seems to be based upon such weak evidence. But mostly it's the behavior of certain large groupings of Christians that bothers me. That actually drove me to explore other paths, as I mentioned.
I started out to write a comment about "choice", but it grew and grew as I wrote and I decided to make it into a post on my own blog instead, where size isn't a problem and where typographical amenities are available. It can be found here for anyone interested:
I do believe that there are ways we can contribute to what becomes of us, but I agree that "choice" isn't one of them, and neither are "works", although they do have a role. What we can do is "commit", rightly or wrongly. I've tried both, and committing to wrong paths eventually took me full circle, more or less, back to what I had been raised with in the first place, but with corrections, setting aside "traditions of men". I didn't work all this out. There were interventions. I was led back. I couldn't have made my way back on my own.
As big a mess as what I did is, I think there could be something worse. It would be to be "raised in the faith", knowing all the right things to believe and never wavering from them, throughout life. Nor ever understanding what's wrong with some of them.
Thank you so much, Scott. Wonderful and clear and helping me to put into words why I object to the falsity I see in most all human efforts at teaching God's Truth.
Excellent Scott explaining humanism, and many so called followers bait congregants with faith without works is dead in order to be saved by Jesus ransom sacrifice, and go further and say you are slaves of Christ. May Our Heavenly Father and Jesus His Son(I DO NOT BELIEVE TRINITY A FALSE DEMONIC PAGAN DOCTRINE), continually bless you with guidance of the Holy Spirit in your work.
No, it's not. Jesus made the Holy Trinity clear. It's real and it exists as God's creation for us. All is God. We just don't understand Him. Not yet.
People reject it because they don't understand it. No one can fully grasp God's divine works. It's okay. I don't fully understand it either. But I know it's true.
Jesus Christ died for our sins. He was dead. Death is death, sleep, unconsciousness, for the dead know nothing. If Jesus is God and God cannot die, then this belief denies the death of Christ if it is followed all the way through. Jesus Christ is God's Son, the perfect image of Almighty God. God is not a trinity, He is expanding His family as Romans Chapter 8 (v. 29-30) teaches that Christ is the firstborn of many brethren. WE are not brothers of God, we are brothers of His Son, Christ Jesus. Also in 1 Corinthians 15: 28, Jesus Christ is subjected to God. God does not subject Himself to Himself. He subjects His Son to Him. They are not the same being, however, they are one in purpose. Jesus Christ is the firstborn of a new creation in which all humanity will one day be. Once God, through the cross of Christ Jesus, perfects all creation...then God subjects all creation and Jesus to Himself so that He will be All in all.
Read it if you want and St. Gregory of Nazianzus. He shows in his writings the contrast between pagan polytheism and the Trinity, as well as the superiority of Christianity. In his XXXIII speech, he explained the difference between Christianity and Judaism with the following words:
"Learning is very short. Remember the baptismal confession of faith. How were you baptized? In the name of the Father? Good. But this is something Jewish. And of the Son? good. This is only Jewish, but not completely. And of the Holy Spirit? very good. Now it is complete. In short, were you baptized in the name of the three, or is there a common name for them? Yes. Which is? God's name alone".
do you know the basic prayer of a Christian? it comes from Nicaea and Constantinople (4th century) and says that the Father is the creator of the world, the Son is the savior of the world, and the Holy Spirit is the giver of life to the world.
I do not argue with anyone and I do not intend to convince anyone. Believe and understand what you want.
God, one according to being, is in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three persons or divine hypostases make up the Holy Trinity, the mystery impenetrable to the human mind and shared with us through divine Discovery.
Yet all things are possible with God. So, I don't know. Dying in a mortal body is not the same as God dying. I think God could and does die in the flesh yet He lives on as He dies in the flesh with each of us and His Spirit within each of us lives on.
He is the supreme celestial being. Just as we die in our mortal flesh we also still live. So, I don't think God and the Holy Trinity of three persons who are also God is beyond God to create. I think the three persons are to help us. We can understand a Father who cares for us, a Brother in Christ and Spiritual guidance in the Spirit.
I'm not convinced we can understand God in the form as we are. It will take a transformation from our experience as the terrestrial creation to the celestial before we will understand even a portion.
Me, I know is not. I was just curious why Saveria Garcia Macri said that. Christianity is the only monotheistic religion that affirms that God is one in being and three in persons.
Not believing means the denying of christianity. From an orthodox point of view, the dogma of the holy trinity is moreover, for the orthodox church the immutable foundation of all religious thought, all piety, all spiritual life all experience. There are many people who deny the truth about the holy trinity, especially those who belong to the unitarian, liberal protestant, neo protestant churches, claiming that this dogma is not explicity mentioned in holy scripture. Seeking to explain logically, those who do not have the ability to understand the dogma do in fact nothing but deny it, considering it irrational. Holy trinity can only be understand by faith. Anyway, quot capitum vivunt, totidem studiorum millia (how many heads, so many thousands of opinions).
Jesus Christ died for our sins. He was dead. Death is death, sleep, unconsciousness, for the dead know nothing. If Jesus is God and God cannot die, then this belief denies the death of Christ if it is followed all the way through. Jesus Christ is God's Son, the perfect image of Almighty God. God is not a trinity, He is expanding His family as Romans Chapter 8 (v. 29-30) teaches that Christ is the firstborn of many brethren. WE are not brothers of God, we are brothers of His Son, Christ Jesus. Also in 1 Corinthians 15: 28, Jesus Christ is subjected to God. God does not subject Himself to Himself. He subjects His Son to Him. They are not the same being, however, they are one in purpose. Jesus Christ is the firstborn of a new creation in which all humanity will one day be. Once God, through the cross of Christ Jesus, perfects all creation...then God subjects all creation and Jesus to Himself so that He will be All in all.
True on the multitude of heads and opinions. Mine included.
Jesus did explain the Holy Trinity in His own words in the book of John. So weird to me how many people who have read the bible will say those words from Jesus aren't in there. I've actually gotten my bible out and read them to them and they are surprised.
Like chemtrails. Regardless of what you think they are or aren't they are right there in front of your eyes. Yet people will deny their very existence. The same is true for many things in regards to people. Belief coupled with denial is very powerful.
I think He begins in John 14 and the explanation continues through several more chapters.
Though He never uses the word "trinity", He speaks of The Father who sent Him (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost who He (Jesus) will send. Each one of the three is described as a definite separate person. The Father and the Holy Ghost referred to by Jesus as a "he" and Jesus referring to himself as a "me". "He (The Father) who sent me (Jesus)."
People say the "Holy Trinity" in reference to these three separate persons Jesus explains to the apostles. I don't think that's the best way to describe what Jesus says since He says it so much better than putting a label like "trinity" on the three persons. I think we do this for brevity but it has been confused.
Just a comment from halfway down...the logic that leads to " it doesn't matter what you choose to do or not do" also leads to the lawless mess we are now in. Chinada is not the country of my birth. That was once known as Canada.
The godless bastards have taken over. But in time we humans will suffer the stupidity we were fooled into voting in. May God help us all.
It always matters what we choose. It is just God that ordains it. Once one realizes the sovereignty of God and salvation through Christ, grace is the driving force to do good. Its grace that leads to good works.
The machinations of humans in this world don't matter except as a personal matter. The world has always been a lawless mess.
God isn't waiting to see what we do. He knows it all already. His plan is beyond us and our choices. But if I want to live a life filled with the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Which I do. Very much I do.) my choices and decisions matter in how my life will be lived.
The way I live does not determine whether God has saved me. My salvation is a gift by His mercy and grace with nothing I do or don't do "added" or "subtracted". To believe how I live overrides God's will is obscene to me.
I want to live with : Love. Joy. Peace. Long Suffering. Gentleness. Goodness. Faith. Humility. Temperance. The fruits of the Holy Spirit alive in my heart, mind and body for all my days in this world.
What a way to live! And more abundantly. Thank you, Jesus. All glory to God.
I think you are on to something.
I'm familiar with "the sons of God" from Gen. 6:2 (בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ / οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ), and 1 Enoch 6 ff., and I think I have read some of your material too, but I don't use that as a basis for conclusions about where the disciplines regarding self-attainment originated. I have, however, studied some of those disciplines, and been a practitioner to a small degree, and yes, there is a problem with that approach! I've also considered myself a humanist at times (certainly not now). So you're writing about things that were near and dear to me at one time.
This is what I find interesting: "Now Christianity, the religion that claims the name of the one true God and His Son, Christ Jesus. Christians profess that Jesus dying on the cross saved them but do they actually mean it?"
I like to ask questions like these, and I am reluctant to use the label "Christian" because it is associated with so many unbiblical things, depending on where one looks. And the "eternity in hell" thing drives me nuts because it seems to be based upon such weak evidence. But mostly it's the behavior of certain large groupings of Christians that bothers me. That actually drove me to explore other paths, as I mentioned.
I started out to write a comment about "choice", but it grew and grew as I wrote and I decided to make it into a post on my own blog instead, where size isn't a problem and where typographical amenities are available. It can be found here for anyone interested:
https://open.substack.com/pub/clearmiddle/p/what-choice-do-we-have
I do believe that there are ways we can contribute to what becomes of us, but I agree that "choice" isn't one of them, and neither are "works", although they do have a role. What we can do is "commit", rightly or wrongly. I've tried both, and committing to wrong paths eventually took me full circle, more or less, back to what I had been raised with in the first place, but with corrections, setting aside "traditions of men". I didn't work all this out. There were interventions. I was led back. I couldn't have made my way back on my own.
As big a mess as what I did is, I think there could be something worse. It would be to be "raised in the faith", knowing all the right things to believe and never wavering from them, throughout life. Nor ever understanding what's wrong with some of them.
Thank you so much, Scott. Wonderful and clear and helping me to put into words why I object to the falsity I see in most all human efforts at teaching God's Truth.
Excellent Scott explaining humanism, and many so called followers bait congregants with faith without works is dead in order to be saved by Jesus ransom sacrifice, and go further and say you are slaves of Christ. May Our Heavenly Father and Jesus His Son(I DO NOT BELIEVE TRINITY A FALSE DEMONIC PAGAN DOCTRINE), continually bless you with guidance of the Holy Spirit in your work.
Thank you
The holy trinity is a false demonic pagan doctrine?
No, it's not. Jesus made the Holy Trinity clear. It's real and it exists as God's creation for us. All is God. We just don't understand Him. Not yet.
People reject it because they don't understand it. No one can fully grasp God's divine works. It's okay. I don't fully understand it either. But I know it's true.
All glory to God. All is God. God is all.
Jesus Christ died for our sins. He was dead. Death is death, sleep, unconsciousness, for the dead know nothing. If Jesus is God and God cannot die, then this belief denies the death of Christ if it is followed all the way through. Jesus Christ is God's Son, the perfect image of Almighty God. God is not a trinity, He is expanding His family as Romans Chapter 8 (v. 29-30) teaches that Christ is the firstborn of many brethren. WE are not brothers of God, we are brothers of His Son, Christ Jesus. Also in 1 Corinthians 15: 28, Jesus Christ is subjected to God. God does not subject Himself to Himself. He subjects His Son to Him. They are not the same being, however, they are one in purpose. Jesus Christ is the firstborn of a new creation in which all humanity will one day be. Once God, through the cross of Christ Jesus, perfects all creation...then God subjects all creation and Jesus to Himself so that He will be All in all.
Read it if you want and St. Gregory of Nazianzus. He shows in his writings the contrast between pagan polytheism and the Trinity, as well as the superiority of Christianity. In his XXXIII speech, he explained the difference between Christianity and Judaism with the following words:
"Learning is very short. Remember the baptismal confession of faith. How were you baptized? In the name of the Father? Good. But this is something Jewish. And of the Son? good. This is only Jewish, but not completely. And of the Holy Spirit? very good. Now it is complete. In short, were you baptized in the name of the three, or is there a common name for them? Yes. Which is? God's name alone".
do you know the basic prayer of a Christian? it comes from Nicaea and Constantinople (4th century) and says that the Father is the creator of the world, the Son is the savior of the world, and the Holy Spirit is the giver of life to the world.
I do not argue with anyone and I do not intend to convince anyone. Believe and understand what you want.
God, one according to being, is in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three persons or divine hypostases make up the Holy Trinity, the mystery impenetrable to the human mind and shared with us through divine Discovery.
Yet all things are possible with God. So, I don't know. Dying in a mortal body is not the same as God dying. I think God could and does die in the flesh yet He lives on as He dies in the flesh with each of us and His Spirit within each of us lives on.
He is the supreme celestial being. Just as we die in our mortal flesh we also still live. So, I don't think God and the Holy Trinity of three persons who are also God is beyond God to create. I think the three persons are to help us. We can understand a Father who cares for us, a Brother in Christ and Spiritual guidance in the Spirit.
I'm not convinced we can understand God in the form as we are. It will take a transformation from our experience as the terrestrial creation to the celestial before we will understand even a portion.
We are looking through a glass darkly.
Me, I know is not. I was just curious why Saveria Garcia Macri said that. Christianity is the only monotheistic religion that affirms that God is one in being and three in persons.
Not believing means the denying of christianity. From an orthodox point of view, the dogma of the holy trinity is moreover, for the orthodox church the immutable foundation of all religious thought, all piety, all spiritual life all experience. There are many people who deny the truth about the holy trinity, especially those who belong to the unitarian, liberal protestant, neo protestant churches, claiming that this dogma is not explicity mentioned in holy scripture. Seeking to explain logically, those who do not have the ability to understand the dogma do in fact nothing but deny it, considering it irrational. Holy trinity can only be understand by faith. Anyway, quot capitum vivunt, totidem studiorum millia (how many heads, so many thousands of opinions).
Jesus Christ died for our sins. He was dead. Death is death, sleep, unconsciousness, for the dead know nothing. If Jesus is God and God cannot die, then this belief denies the death of Christ if it is followed all the way through. Jesus Christ is God's Son, the perfect image of Almighty God. God is not a trinity, He is expanding His family as Romans Chapter 8 (v. 29-30) teaches that Christ is the firstborn of many brethren. WE are not brothers of God, we are brothers of His Son, Christ Jesus. Also in 1 Corinthians 15: 28, Jesus Christ is subjected to God. God does not subject Himself to Himself. He subjects His Son to Him. They are not the same being, however, they are one in purpose. Jesus Christ is the firstborn of a new creation in which all humanity will one day be. Once God, through the cross of Christ Jesus, perfects all creation...then God subjects all creation and Jesus to Himself so that He will be All in all.
True on the multitude of heads and opinions. Mine included.
Jesus did explain the Holy Trinity in His own words in the book of John. So weird to me how many people who have read the bible will say those words from Jesus aren't in there. I've actually gotten my bible out and read them to them and they are surprised.
Like chemtrails. Regardless of what you think they are or aren't they are right there in front of your eyes. Yet people will deny their very existence. The same is true for many things in regards to people. Belief coupled with denial is very powerful.
Where does Jesus explain the Holy Trinity in John?
I think He begins in John 14 and the explanation continues through several more chapters.
Though He never uses the word "trinity", He speaks of The Father who sent Him (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost who He (Jesus) will send. Each one of the three is described as a definite separate person. The Father and the Holy Ghost referred to by Jesus as a "he" and Jesus referring to himself as a "me". "He (The Father) who sent me (Jesus)."
People say the "Holy Trinity" in reference to these three separate persons Jesus explains to the apostles. I don't think that's the best way to describe what Jesus says since He says it so much better than putting a label like "trinity" on the three persons. I think we do this for brevity but it has been confused.
Just a comment from halfway down...the logic that leads to " it doesn't matter what you choose to do or not do" also leads to the lawless mess we are now in. Chinada is not the country of my birth. That was once known as Canada.
The godless bastards have taken over. But in time we humans will suffer the stupidity we were fooled into voting in. May God help us all.
It always matters what we choose. It is just God that ordains it. Once one realizes the sovereignty of God and salvation through Christ, grace is the driving force to do good. Its grace that leads to good works.
The machinations of humans in this world don't matter except as a personal matter. The world has always been a lawless mess.
God isn't waiting to see what we do. He knows it all already. His plan is beyond us and our choices. But if I want to live a life filled with the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Which I do. Very much I do.) my choices and decisions matter in how my life will be lived.
The way I live does not determine whether God has saved me. My salvation is a gift by His mercy and grace with nothing I do or don't do "added" or "subtracted". To believe how I live overrides God's will is obscene to me.
I want to live with : Love. Joy. Peace. Long Suffering. Gentleness. Goodness. Faith. Humility. Temperance. The fruits of the Holy Spirit alive in my heart, mind and body for all my days in this world.
What a way to live! And more abundantly. Thank you, Jesus. All glory to God.