The Problem with Eternal Separation?

My response to a You-tube question

The following are some questions and comments I received from a person based on one of my previous videos. I appreciate the comment because I think it brings out some wonderful truths from scripture.

Question from viewer to me:

Why do you have a problem with the idea of eternal separation? Who are we to clap back at God and say He can't do that? As you said, God does what He wills. Now when I read near the end of Revelation, I don't see where everyone will come to God at the end. I see folks who are thrown into the lake of fire, and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.

God did love His enemies, and they could care less. So their punishment is just. Free will is simply the choice between life and death. Moses told the people to choose life. Yet if we decide not to, God gave us that right. The punishment of those who reject God's offer of life will be the result. We don't have free will concerning the results. Just like seedtime and harvest. If you don't plant, you shouldn't expect a harvest. You can't get mad that there's no harvest when you didn't plant the seeds. The results are in the choice we make, and the results aren't free will.

My response to viewer:

Why do you have a problem with the idea of eternal separation?

I have a problem with the idea of eternal separation for so many reasons. For one, it limits the power of the cross and makes Jesus Christ a failure. Jesus came to ‘save sinners’ and died on the cross for the sin of the world. Yet, eternal separation states that people will be separate from God for all eternity because of SIN, the very thing Christ died for. It makes God and the cross of Christ subservient to man’s choice.

Not to mention that God is Spirit and in Him we live and move and exist (Acts 17:28). How could we ever be separate from Him?

However, first and foremost, scripture denies it. Colossians 1: 15-20 says that all of God’s creation will be reconciled through the blood of the cross. 1 Corinthians 15: 21-28 says that the same ‘all’ that die in Adam will be made alive in Christ so that God will be ALL in the all that die in Adam.

Here is a summary of just a few reasons why I have a problem with eternal separation:

• We are alive because of God’s spirit and in Him we live and move and are. Eternal separation says that God will be separate from His own spirit.

• Eternal separation says that God is not the savior of all mankind, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10 says that He is.

• Eternal separation says that Christ doesn’t vivify all that die in Adam. 1 Corinthians 15: 21-22 says He does.

• Eternal separation? God will be All in all (1 Corinthians 15:28)?

• Eternal separation? God reconciles all creation to Himself through the blood of the cross (Colossians 1: 15-20).

• Eternal separation? If Jesus came to save sinners, which He did, and these sinners are not saved…then this would make Jesus a failure and would not bring God glory. Yet, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, FOR THE GLORY OF GOD, the Father.

• How can eternal separation be true if all creation is delivered from slavery into the glorious freedom of children of God (Romans 8: 21-22)?

Who are we to clap back at God and say He can't do that? As you said, God does what He wills.

You make this statement like you think God is sovereign. You quoted me as saying “God does what He wills.” This seems like you are agreeing with God’s sovereignty? You believe God does what He wills?

Well, God wills to save all mankind and for them to come to a knowledge of truth (1 Timothy 2:4). So, you are saying God can’t do what He wills because of man’s choice. So according to you, because God is at the mercy of man’s choice, He cannot do what He wills.

Now when I read near the end of Revelation, I don't see where everyone will come to God at the end. I see folks who are thrown into the lake of fire, and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.

You are certainly right that not all people are saved in the book of Revelation.

However, why do you think the book of Revelation is the end? Its a common and serious mistake to think that because Revelation is the last book in the bible, that it goes to the furthest period of time into the future.

In revelation, Jesus Christ is ruling and reigning for the 1000 years and the ‘new heavens and the new earth’ age. These are the last two periods of the aionion times. Paul received a revelation of a time that goes beyond the book of Revelation into a deeper future. In 1 Corinthians 15: 25-28, Paul says that Jesus Christ’s reign comes to end.

25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy is being abolished: death. - 1 Corinthians 15: 25

The word ‘until’ means that when this event happens, Christ’s reign ends. Therefore, when all enemies are abolished, the last one being death…Christ’s rule ends. Remember, Christ is still ruling all throughout Revelation. So, Paul here is speaking of a time after Revelation. What happens after Revelation? All are saved.

You need further evidence of Christ’s rule coming to an end? Well, the next three verses in Paul’s letter talks about Christ being subjected to God. All that die in Adam and all creation are subjected to Christ. The only One not subjected to Christ is God Himself. All creation is subjected to Christ so that God will be All in all.

27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all. - 1 Corinthians 15: 27-28

You see, my dear friend, Christ gives up His rule because there is no need to rule anymore. Christ has perfected all of God’s creation by subjecting it to the cross, so that God will be their all. Christ rules so perfectly that eventually, after Revelation, there is no need for rule. 1 Corinthians 15: 21-28 talks about a time AFTER Revelation.

In many bibles, Revelation 11:15 is translated to say that Jesus will reign forever and ever. How can Jesus reign forever and ever if His reign comes to an end? He cannot. The Greek word used in this verse ‘aion’ Strong’s 165 means ‘age.’ How can Jesus rule forever and ever, are there two eternities? NO, Christ rules and reigns for the ages of the ages, the last two glorious ages.

So it is with your reference to Revelation 14:11. The Greek word ‘aion’ is used again to denote ‘age’ not eternity. Again, there are not two eternities, but two ‘ages’ in play during the book of Revelation. These verses should be translated ‘ages of the ages’ not ‘forever and ever.’ A word search in how these words are used in scripture will prove their meaning.

The Lake of fire:

As I’m sure you know, the lake of fire is referred to as the second death (Revelation 20:15). Remember, 1 Corinthians 15: 27 says that ‘death,’ the last ‘enemy’ will be abolished. So, my question to you: What happens to those in death (Lake of fire) when death is abolished?

They are made alive!

The only way to abolish death is to put on the immortality of Christ and that is exactly what happens to all creation, each in their own order of course. First Christ, then believers, then those at the consummation which is after the 1000 years, after judgement, after the new heavens and new earth age and yes, after the lake of fire.

You end God’s operation too early. Yes, many people are not saved in Revelation. But, this is not the end. You have to let the fullness of the ages pass in order for the cross to reach every single creature as scripture declares:

15 Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature,
16 for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,
17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him.
18 And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first,
19 for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell,
20 and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens. - Colossians 1: 15-20

God did love His enemies, and they could care less. So their punishment is just.

You used ‘did’ in the past tense when referring to God’s love…as if God’s love runs out or has limits? Love is God’s essence, God is love and He cannot be anything else. To suggest that God did love His enemies but doesn’t anymore is saying that God ceases to be God.

This is why you think eternal punishment is just I assume. You fail to recognize that God’s action towards every single creature that He created is one of love…all the time. Any punishment, judgement, separation is ultimately done for the good of the creature experiencing it. Judgement is correction as Isaiah 26:9 says and it always done with the good of the one being judged in mind. God is not a vindictive tyrant.

When your judgements come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness. -Isaiah 26:9

Free will is simply the choice between life and death. Moses told the people to choose life. Yet if we decide not to, God gave us that right.

The video you are responding to is one on Romans, chapter 9. I’m wondering why you did not address any of the scripture verses in this chapter when explaining that God gives us the right to choose life or death? Is it because Romans 9 completely disproves your theory?

Again, God says that He determined EVERYTHING Jacob and Esau would do, good or bad, before they were even born. This means that every decision made was determined by God beforehand so that all would know it is Him that chooses and it is not out of human acts (Romans 9:11-13).

God sums it up in Romans 9:16:

16 Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of God, the Merciful.

You think it is of the person who is willing to make the right choice, when God says that He is the one that determines how a man chooses. If God gave man the right to choose without first determining the choice man would make, then how could God plan every decision in Jacob and Esau’s life?

If God gave everyone the right to choose, then how can you explain that He hardens hearts (Romans 9:18)?

All of this is explained in Romans 9:19-25. Yes, Moses and many in scripture ask people to choose. However, nobody can go against God’s intention of making the decision that God has planned for them to make. This is why the analogy of the Potter and the clay is used. God forms us and creates the circumstances of life to cause us to make the choices that He has planned for us to make. He is God.

You, my friend, believe in a limited god that is not God at all. Our choices are part of God’s plan and they come from Him. Our choices are not god’s of themselves that create a circumstance in which God has to react.

Got plants the seeds and the harvest, God creates us and the circumstances that cause us to make the choices He has planned since before we were born, God makes the lemons and the lemonade.

Grace and peace.